I know God exists but I am interested in the perspective form the Atheist. If God did exist, which I know he does, what would be his attributes according to your perspective and nature. Again, I am not interested in the reponse that "He does not therefore I will not try", but rather a description according to your views. Who knows, could be fun!
I'd firstly love to know how exactly you "know" God exists when such a being is not around in this universe and actually requires faith to believe in him.
"what would be his attributes according to your perspective and nature"
According to my perspective, the closest thing you can call a God would be nature.
(I don't know if you are, but I'm assuming you're talking about the christian god)
If a god exists, it must be a completely spiritual entity which has no power in the physical realm. It does not affect reality in any way, except vicariously through the actions of its believers. It also is not a provable entity, since there has not been any scientific evidence for its actions, attitude, or powers.
Since this god can only work through the minds of its followers, the bible written by god through the hands of a believer is either fallible, or god is NOT all knowing, and has written it down. (Hosea 8:4 "They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.") Which is interesting to me since this god's supporters claim he is omniscient.
If God really does exist then I would assume that rather than creating the Universe he has instead 'imagined' it.
Therefore all of nature, from the matter that makes it up to more abstract concepts such as time, entropy, the fact that 1+1=2 etc. are in fact the product of thought. We can all do this to a limited degree. When we dream we are sure that at the time the things and people are real but of course in the morning we realise that they were not. It could be the same with the Universe.
How do we know that when we have a dream about someone that that person does not have their own consciousness and 'free will' within our dream? We don't, just as I cannot tell how many people I meet in 'reality' are actually sentient and, to paraphrase Jonathan Miller, are something that it's like to be.
In theory I cannot see why a mind sufficiently advanced and with memory and an ability to hold information the like of which we cannot ever hope to match could not conceive a set of laws and conditions and then play the mental game of, 'what would happen next'
After all, imagine the sort of things going on in the mind of Einstein or Ed Whitton or Hawkings etc. I'm sure they have all created their own versions of reality in their own imagination and then let them run as you might a computer programme.
The more I learn about the strange quantum world on which our reality is based the more I realise that things are not the way they seem. The fact that at least 99.9% of an atom is empty space and that even the electrons, neutrons and protons that make up the atom don't exist in the same way that the bed I'm sitting on does. The fact that empty space is far from empty but is full of particles winking into existence and then annihilating each other. An action that can only happen because they borrow energy from the future. (Unless they are on the event horizon of a black hole)
All these things suggest that the Universe is made primarily of information and any energy or solid matter that you may come across is just an illusion or information.
The only thing then that any of us can be 100% certain about must be our own self and the fact that we are conscious. I think therefore I am.
It may well be that consciousness is all there is and everything else is imagined. This of course doesn't take anything away from the Universe. The big bang still happened, the Earth still accreted from the disc of matter after the Sun's birth, Dinosaurs still roamed the Earth and we still evolved from microbes. All it means is that reality is not that which it appears to be.
And before anyone accuses me of believing in God I must put them straight. This consciousness is not a god in the biblical sense but rather in the 'God is Nature' sense and rather than creating everything with a purpose or a plan in mind it is instead simply the product of pure imagination.
Also, don't take this too seriously as I'm just putting it forward as more of my inane ramblings.
If God really does exist then I would assume that rather than creating the Universe he has instead 'imagined' it.
Therefore all of nature, from the matter that makes it up to more abstract concepts such as time, entropy, the fact that 1+1=2 etc. are in fact the product of thought. We can all do this to a limited degree. When we dream we are sure that at the time the things and people are real but of course in the morning we realise that they were not. It could be the same with the Universe.
How do we know that when we have a dream about someone that that person does not have their own consciousness and 'free will' within our dream? We don't, just as I cannot tell how many people I meet in 'reality' are actually sentient and, to paraphrase Jonathan Miller, are something that it's like to be.
In theory I cannot see why a mind sufficiently advanced and with memory and an ability to hold information the like of which we cannot ever hope to match could not conceive a set of laws and conditions and then play the mental game of, 'what would happen next'
After all, imagine the sort of things going on in the mind of Einstein or Ed Whitton or Hawkings etc. I'm sure they have all created their own versions of reality in their own imagination and then let them run as you might a computer programme.
The more I learn about the strange quantum world on which our reality is based the more I realise that things are not the way they seem. The fact that at least 99.9% of an atom is empty space and that even the electrons, neutrons and protons that make up the atom don't exist in the same way that the bed I'm sitting on does. The fact that empty space is far from empty but is full of particles winking into existence and then annihilating each other. An action that can only happen because they borrow energy from the future. (Unless they are on the event horizon of a black hole)
All these things suggest that the Universe is made primarily of information and any energy or solid matter that you may come across is just an illusion or information.
The only thing then that any of us can be 100% certain about must be our own self and the fact that we are conscious. I think therefore I am.
It may well be that consciousness is all there is and everything else is imagined. This of course doesn't take anything away from the Universe. The big bang still happened, the Earth still accreted from the disc of matter after the Sun's birth, Dinosaurs still roamed the Earth and we still evolved from microbes. All it means is that reality is not that which it appears to be.
And before anyone accuses me of believing in God I must put them straight. This consciousness is not a god in the biblical sense but rather in the 'God is Nature' sense and rather than creating everything with a purpose or a plan in mind it is instead simply the product of pure imagination.
Also, don't take this too seriously as I'm just putting it forward as more of my inane ramblings.
Ready for the chicken or the egg? Which came first, the ears or the mouth? You have to have one before the need of the other. And what is the need of one if you have no concept of seeing or hearing in the first place. What is the point of fins if you are a blob, and what is the point of lungs if you have never breathed air absent of water? Also, one more question, evolution is thought to have come to play I believe through deformity, but deformities are anti progressive. This is proven so how can something evolve? Creatures adapt not evolve.
Ready for the chicken or the egg? Which came first, the ears or the mouth? You have to have one before the need of the other. And what is the need of one if you have no concept of seeing or hearing in the first place. What is the point of fins if you are a blob, and what is the point of lungs if you have never breathed air absent of water? Also, one more question, evolution is thought to have come to play I believe through deformity, but deformities are anti progressive. This is proven so how can something evolve? Creatures adapt not evolve.
Please read a book on evolution, a thorough understanding of the theory would help you here.
How about instead of sending me on a quest you try to enlighten me? what do you think, I'm willing to debate it from logic
How about instead of sending me on a quest you try to enlighten me? what do you think, I'm willing to debate it from logic
There is no point trying to debate Evolution with someone who has just shown they know next to nothing about the subject. Read a book on Evolution and show you have some actual grasp on the subject.
How about instead of sending me on a quest you try to enlighten me? what do you think, I'm willing to debate it from logic
There is no point trying to debate Evolution with someone who has just shown they know next to nothing about the subject. Read a book on Evolution and show you have some actual grasp on the subject.
I asked you to bring a single point of topic and you avoid it. And what is your basis I know nothing about evoution. Is it because i dont want to go on a quest to try and figure out what you personally believe. I cant see your thoughts! So bring the topic, I have brought mine, you bring yours.
What is my basis you know nothing about Evolution? This:
"Ready for the chicken or the egg? Which came first, the ears or the mouth? You have to have one before the need of the other. And what is the need of one if you have no concept of seeing or hearing in the first place. What is the point of fins if you are a blob, and what is the point of lungs if you have never breathed air absent of water? Also, one more question, evolution is thought to have come to play I believe through deformity, but deformities are anti progressive. This is proven so how can something evolve? Creatures adapt not evolve."
You have no idea how it works if you are asking those questions, and you want to debate us on it??? You continually ask "what is the point?" so it shows that you do not understand Evolution to be a blind process. You change the word "mutation" into "deformity" so that it sounds negative, and then proceed to base your argument on deformities being anti-progressive. Many scientists have proved many many times that mutations can be beneficial. Your last statement is plain silly, because adaptation is the main concept of evolution, so you managed to contradict yourself in a single sentence.
Go to
http://talkorigins.org. Read. Then come back and present your arguments.