Atheist Forum

1) God exists

2) God does not exist

One of these choices is true in existential reality. The other is not.

These choices are not about belief or unbelief because that by itself is irrelevant. Belief is like a colour one likes red another likes blue.
Basing your life on belief that God exists or does not exist is like building a house on sand. Calling yourself this or that just on the basis of belief is ridiculous. Today you believe, tomorow you dont. If you are going to talk merely about belief you can talk till the cows come home but that discussion is empty words and nobody wants to hear it anyway. What people want to know is whether or not God exists.

Thus in my last thread "Atheism is a logical impossibility" I gave the following definition which is in danger of becoming irrelevant as people get hung up in the infinite loop of belief debates and miss the original question.

ATHEISM: THE DENIAL IN THEORY AND/OR PRACTICE THAT GOD EXISTS.

One of the above 2 choices in existential reality is fact the other is false. No matter what you bellieve individually.

Regarding choice 1:

If God exists

Then he is his own particular self, he is who he is and he knows himself and who he is and knows his own nature. The way and manner in which he reveals himself to us and chooses to exist is entirely dependent upon him and at his own discretion.

No amount of myth forming, personification by human beings will change this. So if one religion bellieves he is a bull another bellieves he is a man with a beard and a bolt of lightning, and/or should be this type of person or that type, all these religions really do then is to merely create erroneous pictures in imagination and culture of nations and individuals. So we have all these myths that confuse the issue and could cause people to resent God or the question of his existence.

If God exists and man is a totally free creature (for man to be totally free God must stay hidden until in freedom man seeks and finds God)

Then it is up to the creature as opposed to the creator to discover the true nature of the creator if he so desires (free will must be present), in an authentic manner or along a specific path chosen by God as opposed to man imagining things up and making his own image of God up to suit himself.

Regarding choice 2)

If God does not exist:

Do whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want and as many times as you feel like doing it. Nothing matters just as much as everything matters and there is no meaning in life greater or lesser than any other meaning in life.

Man is a curious creature. He thinks he is so smart that he knows about life and death. What he does not realise though is that he does not even know what he does not know. Man does not know where he came from? Why he is who he is? How it is that anything even exists at all? He never gave himself life and even in reproducing foolishly thinks he is giving his children life when in reality he doesnt have a clue about how to create life and is merely cooperating with the universe. Everything that man is and dreams is given to him, nothing that he is, was created by him. Does any man know what truly happens after we die? Our egos are so big and we are so self absorbed by them that we stare in amazement at ourselves twisting the world to fit into our desires instead of seeing the most simple and obvious things right under our noses.

Deep down in all of us when ego dissapears then God is clearly seen.

God gave us universe, God gave us Big Bang and whatever was before it. God gave us life.

Love of self to the point of contempt for God, this is all the stuff that Atheism is made from. Love of God to the point of disregard for self, this is the stuff that authentic life on earth and after death consists in.

We can spend our entire life standing in the mirror admiring ourselves or we can live in love with God. Dont waste your life in front of the mirror of atheism and agnosticism my friends. Find the image of God in Jesus Christ through hours of reading and meditating on the Gospel and taking the choice to go on a personal mission to find God authentically not out of curiousity but to establish communion with God in love. I say that you will not be dissapointed because I too once was an atheist but I sought and eventually found the treasure for which I gladly give up everything I have. The treasure is love of God. There is nothing more beautiful (until I see God) then that, within my inner life, I love God. Nothing else matters. I wish you all well and hope happiness for you.

There's a starman waiting in the sky.
He'd like to come and meet us, but he thinks hed blow our minds.
There's a starman waiting in the sky.
He's told us not to blow it, cause he knows its all worthwhile
He told me:
Let the children lose it.
Let the children use it.
Let all the children boogie.

I had to phone someone so I picked on you ho ho
Hey, thats far out so you heard him too! o o
Switch on the tv we may pick him up on channel two
Look out your window I can see his ligh..a..ight
If we can sparkle he may land tonigh..a..ight
Don't tell your poppa or hell get us locked up in fright

I don't understand this point that some religious folk always try to make- as soon as there is no god, morals and ethics go straight out the window and everyone starts right in with the bacchanalia. As an atheist, I don't believe that there is an eternal reward for dong good. Why does that also mean that I don't give a crap about the things I do? I consider myself a good person. I try to be nice to people, and if, for example, I hurt someone, I feel bad about it. This is not because I am afraid god is watching me, it simply human empathy. I take my reward for the good I do now, and the reward may be nothing more than feeling good knowing that I've helped someone. Is it not better to do right by your fellows because you WANT to, than because someone told you to?

It's odd that you tell me not to waste my time in front of a mirror (although I understand fully that it is an analogy), and then explain that I should spend hours and hours reading and meditating. I'd much rather live my life in the moment, living because I'm alive than pine for the afterlife all day. And, although I may seem to you like a stock atheist, I have actually tried to find god, with all my heart. I had an active religious youth, attending several youth camps, and prayed my butt off. But then I realized that no one was listening. My prayers were never answered, although I believed at the time that they would be.

PS. I hope you are willing to give up everything you have because I think that's a prereq to get into heaven (according to Mr. Christo).

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This is the new law of the forum. If at any point someone feels that a thread is completely idiotic and flawed in so many ways, simply post a verse or chorus of a song. It helps restore sanity to those who had to read through the post.

Your post could be summed up in one sentence:

Atheists haven't got a purpose to life.

If your thesis is correct then give us evidence. Why am I not commiting suicide right now because I don't believe in God?

Then you asked a bunch of stupid questions that are totally irrelevent.

If you need to believe in a deity for a reason to live then you clearly haven't really got a life.

Bad Brick-top! Bad!
Adriaaaaaaaaaaaan! Brick-top broke the forum rules! Can we have a public stoning, are maybe burn him at the stake like in the good ol' days?

Think about morals for a while. Imagine there is no God (which I guess is an easy thing to do on Atheist forum HAHAHHAHA :-)).

Now lets take the command do not kill.
Notice this was given as a command of God in the Judaio-Christian religion.

If everyone is an atheist in a democracy and they by majority vote decide that killing people under the age of 1 month who have genetic defects or killing people over 70 years age will solve overpopulation problems and ease tax burdens then that is what will happen.

If God does not exist morality becomes nothing else except the personal opinion of the person.

If God does not exist morality in society becomes nothing else except the personal morality of the leader, the leading or influential members of goverment or the democratically decided morality.

In history we have Hitler and Stalin who both had a warped personal morality and also warped the personal morality of their citizens and the result was tens of millions of people dead not to mention the suffering caused.

The laws of God guide the human person in his acting and his thinking to lead the person to happiness.

When a person becomes an atheist then morality becomes relative.

For instance do not commit adultery becomes: Its ok to cheat with your neighbours wife as long as you dont get caught and she wants it too.

The sexual morals become relative because the natural sexual desire is able to impinge its own specific character onto consciousness, its able to overwhelm the capacity for the emotions to be placed in check by reason and then the disordered emotions overwhelm the free will and the will is instead eventually subjugated by the emotion which causes the person to act in an immoral way to release the emotion causing sexual stress. One cannot say that the person is in control, one can only say that the person has become a slave of his body. In this way one cannot talk about free will being present.

Which one is it and how sure are you?

God Does exist

God Does not exist

If you are not sure, I suggest you start listening to somebody who has been where you were and understands your situation.

You are welcome to ask me if you are serious, but dont go through life saying you are sure that God does not exist when you are not. Because then you are lying to yourself and thats just not what I would wish for anyone because you loose yourself pretty quickly and your life will have been a waste.