I've thought about this for years and years. Living in a community of believers, I would like to feel like one of the 'family' and believe as they do. But I don't believe...I'm not convinced....and every time I think about it I am LESS convinced.
I had a discussion at work with a devout Mormon and a devout Catholic. One of them used the phrase that I "choose not to believe".
Asking them if they chose their beliefs they both said "yes". By that logic then, they could also choose to not believe. In my opinion they cannot be TRUE BELIEVERS if they could simply choose to believe something else.
I would be interested in your comments.
Yep, its called ignorance.
You Can choose you faith but Most are Peer Presured or Bainwashed into it.
The state and the church are in-separable. The state needs the church in order to keep people accepting their slavery. You're coerced
into believing, because if you choose not to believe than you're alienated.
I've thought about this for years and years. Living in a community of believers, I would like to feel like one of the 'family' and believe as they do. But I don't believe...I'm not convinced....and every time I think about it I am LESS convinced.
I had a discussion at work with a devout Mormon and a devout Catholic. One of them used the phrase that I "choose not to believe".
Asking them if they chose their beliefs they both said "yes". By that logic then, they could also choose to not believe. In my opinion they cannot be TRUE BELIEVERS if they could simply choose to believe something else.
I would be interested in your comments.
In my opinion believing in a religious sense indeed entails a choice: the choice not to question. Whether muslim, mormon, catholic or hindu, this is what the religious have in common.
By portraying this stance as a choice it is suggested that these choices themself were made on a rational basis. In most cases this does not hold. In a religious environment it is encouraged to adopt this choice by authority of elderly people. Root such a choice in childhood when critical faculties are not well developed yet and you will find it very hard to abondon it later in life. Such choices should not be imposed on children before the age at which they are said to behave and think as grown ups.
Ask these devout religious people at which age they made these profound choices and which rational critical investigation led them to their choice. Which alternative religions did they explore. In most cases you will find that no rational critical thinking underpins their choice, but that there is a strongcorrelation with cultural background. Believe is not a rational thing, but don't believe me on my word. Investigate it yourself.
I can agree with that asessment Purple Rabbit and may I add that
it is child abuse. Children are being taught fear of an everlasting death in a firey pit or lake. Childhood bears enough fears of the unknown.
There is an "escape hatch" from this idea of heaven and everlasting death. It is written in this repulsive bible of theirs.
Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is inside of us.
That right there negates this whole religious thing. Jesus, if a real person, recieved some buddhists training. He was an enlightened teacher and not the son of any god.
These people need to be freed, but they will have to free their own minds from this ignorance.
Sorry I got passionate and off topic.
I have a real problem here with the word choose!
For example: commonly a person is attracted to a faith group by the prospect of unconditional social acceptance. If 'converted' they know they will immediately be the star of their new social circle, who have already been paying them a huge amount of attention while trying to convert them.
So they choose to join. But do we suppose that these underlying reasons are clearly present in their conscious mind at decision time? Hmmm...
This post brings to mind Pascals famous "wager", which goes along these lines.
- Belief in god has one key advantage, if it's right you spend eternity in heaven (providing you live by the dogma's of your chosen god, that is!)
- Atheism offers no such perks, in fact if we are wrong we are doomed to an eternity in hell (which again is different for each religion etc...)
- Hence we should all believe in God because we have everything to gain and nothing to lose.
as so many others have noted this is slightly embarassing given his eminence but his argument is completley reliant on the fact that we can choose to believe and that an omnipotent and omniscient being would not see through such a deception.
We cannot simply choose to believe i feel that self eveident - belief or non-belief comes from something deeply ingrained within us possibly due to indoctrination at an early age or an expression of our personality but as i say it is not a choice we can make, to me it is as simple as that
I have been told this "Choice" argument before, every religious person i have spoken too says they "choose" to believe etc..etc..etc.
I ask them when they made that decision, they can never answer with out leaving open ended questions for themselves.
My only problem with it is,
well where is the choice? If i believe in a God, i have to believe that i am going too burn in hell forever if i mess up or if i choose to not believe one day based on logical thought.
So do i REALLY have a choice?