Just wondered aht atheists generally thought of alcoholics annomynous and other twelve step recovery groups since they encourage there members to believe in God.
Well if they do they shouldn't.
I can understand that faith can be very positive, especially when tackling 'demons' but people should learn to draw strength from themselves and their family rather than the supernatural.
Presumably it was the same god that allowed them to be an alcoholic in the first place.
Most chronic alcoholics have probably tried givng up with thier own strength and support from thier family and failed on several occasions. They belive a spiritual experience is the best way to treat chronic alcoholism, the meetings i go to don't try to make you go to church or any other religious institution but many members of a variety of faiths do. AA was partly started when the psychiatrist Carl Jung was treating a chronis alcoholic patient and said that thier is little hope for such cases in the world of medical science, which was true at the time, jung said that very rarely cases like him do recover through having some sort of profound spirtual experience. This man (rowland hazard iii) then joined a christian evangelical group called the oxford group. He told other alcoholics about his experience one of which is bill wilson who is one of AA's co-founders. Bill wilson wanted AA to be a christian group but other co founders said it should be run on the principle of people coming to thier own understanding of god. Some members of AA do go to church or a mosue or whatever but many don't and it is in no way required. The main thing the group encourage morally is humilty and helping others. Do you think that a spiritual experience and encouraging people to find a power higher themselves to keep them sober is good or bad. Do u think AA is all in all a good or bad organisation?
Do you think that a spiritual experience and encouraging people to find a power higher themselves to keep them sober is good or bad. Do u think AA is all in all a good or bad organisation?
I suppose that is that is the only way that you can keep someone sober then it must be preferable to alcoholism. Better to have a happy and sober Christian than a drunk and miserable atheist.
Of course the best thing is to have a happy sober atheist.
AA is of course a good organisation but as long as it isn't a back door into indoctrination.
Alot of the members of AA in the area i live (bristol, england) aren't christian or any other religion u even get a few athesists there who just view the collective of the group as a higher power, which it is, the power all of us have together is more than that of one of us all on our own. Many members of AA do believe in a God that can help keep them sober but don't prcatice any religion, they pray and feel that god's helping them but treat it like a very personal experience.
I can't see how belief in God could possibly make you sober up. If anything you get more and more delusional.
Well i know alot of people that used to drink very heavily for a long time in a very destructive way who know longer do since they came to believe a god or some sort of higher power could keep them sober. Basically it does help people sober up.
I also know someone who was once a football hooligan but became a christian and now isn't, he has now been to work in a homeless shelter in africa and now is a prison chaplain and runs a church which is mainly filled with people who used to be criminals and addicts. Without thier religion in thier lives many of these people would still be caught up in violence, crime and addiction or may well have ended up dead. I'm not a christian nor do i intend to be but i have seen religion change very damamged people into reasonably happy ones. I do see the negative sides of religion and do realise they believe some very silly things and i realise that when religious movements start political movements based soley on thier faith (jesus camp, anti gay marraige etc) it can be very bad. When i see people like dawkins saying they are trying to kill religion i think it's like protesting the sun.
You cannot deny that people change their lives when they accept God. You do not know the experience now because you are stuck firm in your sinful ways. There is still hope for all of you!
So you think that you are better than all of us do you?
You cannot deny that people change their lives when they accept God. You do not know the experience now because you are stuck firm in your sinful ways. There is still hope for all of you!
Atheists aren't 'stuck' in any ways, if anything you're the one who is stuck in your Christian ways. Maybe people change their lives when they 'accept God' but I believe that they are 'accepting' something which does not exist. If believing in God helps people come off drink, drugs etc then fair enough. I've not been in that kind of situation myself so I can't really judge people who use religious belief to help them out of it.
However, I don't personally believe in God and I would perhaps even go as far as to say that the church 'preys' on these vulnerable people and indoctrinates them into believing something which can't be proven and which there is no evidence for. I also think it can be harmful in other ways, for example the church might teach people that 'God' is watching them and will always look out for them. Some might interpret this as meaning that they can go out and get drunk and will not get into any trouble (eg. fights), which is simply not the case.