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I've just read this on another board and would be interested in you opinions.

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So there he is once again parading his religious bigotry on prime-time television.
Richard Dawkins is on our screens again lauding his idol in a new series called 'The Genius Of Charles Darwin'.
Now it so happens that Dawkins is an excellent pedant, expounding his opinions clearly and logically, and when he sticks to his brief (assuming that he had one) he makes an excellent job of describing Darwin's evolution and illustrated it marvellously from cruel nature filmed in Kenya and elsewhere.
Where he falls down , as he normally does, is in his conviction that:
Darwin's theory of evolution somehow 'disproves' religious belief in a God-created system

That the theory of evolution is somehow a radical departure from conventional knowledge and belief, whereas in effect, Darwin is now a part of mainstream orthodoxy
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Darwin in his writings does not mention God and certainly at no point does he attack religion in the form of Christianity; all that he apparently left to his arch-disciple, Dawkins.
I am surprised at the way Dawkins continually makes unscientific statements as if they were in fact based upon scientific method.
For the theory of evolution is just that, a theory. Logically it points to the derivation of ;life from a single source - the single-celled bacterium or whatever, but that logical construction is currently not scientifically testable and therefore is not scientific. The same strictures apply to his blase assumptions that life itself sprang accidentally out of lifeless chemicals. That can be argued with apparently flawless logic, but again it is not , at this time scientifically testable, or, to put it another way, any attempt to verify that opinion scientifically have been an absolute failure. Perhaps one day scientists will create life and verify Dawkins religious obsession, but until they do, he is not talking science.

But Dawkins does not stop there. Oh no! He goes further and maintains that God did not create the universe it 'just happened' in the big bang. Now this opinion, by its very nature will never be scientifically testable, so what Dawkins is telling us here is his religious belief, and quite frankly I am not interested in his religious beliefs. If he sticks to science, then he is good, even excellent, but when he ventures outside of science he is just another religious bore.
Now Darwin himself. His theory of evolution is elegant and from what we observe looks as if it is true. Dawkins maintains that this theory is possibly the most important scientific theory ever.
But is it?
I judge the importance of science from the effect that it has had upon the world - how it has changed our live (normally for the better). One only has to consider the effects of the following scientific discoveries upon our lives and compare them with any comparable effect that Darwin's theories have had to see just how small the impact of evolution has been upon our lives:
Newtons dynamic theories and calculus
Priestley's chemical discoveries
Faraday's electrical discoveries
Maxwell's electro-magnetic discoveries
Telephony discoveries
medical advance discoveries
Atomic theory discoveries.
Hertz's radio wave discoveries.
Relativity discoveries
Quantum theorem discoveries
Shockley's semi-conductor discoveries
Turing's computing discoveries

This short list has altered our world forever and improved the standards of living and life expectancy enormously. These are all effects of good science.

What effect has Darwin had except to change our view of the world?

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Where he falls down , as he normally does, is in his conviction that:
Darwin's theory of evolution somehow 'disproves' religious belief in a God-created system

Dawkins has never said that Evolution somehow disproves God, but instead that it disproves the "Creation" stories as far as life goes. God did not create animals in a week, and then man on the last day. The theory of Evolution says nothing of where life came from, only the reasons for its diversity.

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Darwin in his writings does not mention God and certainly at no point does he attack religion in the form of Christianity; all that he apparently left to his arch-disciple, Dawkins.

Well actually he left it to his arch-disciple Thomas Huxley.

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I am surprised at the way Dawkins continually makes unscientific statements as if they were in fact based upon scientific method.

Belief and Religion cannot be tested or observed in any of their claims, therefore they are not scientific, so Dawkins is able to show them in such light. Scientific research has shown that religion is wrong on so many occasions.

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For the theory of evolution is just that, a theory. Logically it points to the derivation of ;life from a single source - the single-celled bacterium or whatever, but that logical construction is currently not scientifically testable and therefore is not scientific.

The theory of Evolution is a theory yes, but "Evolution" is a fact of science. A fact in science is an observable and testable occurrence, and it has a theory to explain it. Gravity is a fact. When we drop things they fall to the ground. The theory of Gravity is the explanation for that. We have observed Evolution and we are testing Evolution every day in labs.

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The same strictures apply to his blase assumptions that life itself sprang accidentally out of lifeless chemicals. That can be argued with apparently flawless logic, but again it is not , at this time scientifically testable, or, to put it another way, any attempt to verify that opinion scientifically have been an absolute failure.

Abiogenesis is a science. The Miller-Urey experiment produced the basic building blocks of life from a chemical soup. That was over 50 years ago. It is annoying that people seem to think that this isn't testable.

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Perhaps one day scientists will create life and verify Dawkins religious obsession, but until they do, he is not talking science.

As noted in the above paragraph, yes he is.

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But Dawkins does not stop there. Oh no! He goes further and maintains that God did not create the universe it 'just happened' in the big bang. Now this opinion, by its very nature will never be scientifically testable, so what Dawkins is telling us here is his religious belief, and quite frankly I am not interested in his religious beliefs. If he sticks to science, then he is good, even excellent, but when he ventures outside of science he is just another religious bore.

Not testable but observable, and therefore scientific. Background radiation, red and blue shift, etc. There is countless evidence for the Big Bang.

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Now Darwin himself. His theory of evolution is elegant and from what we observe looks as if it is true. Dawkins maintains that this theory is possibly the most important scientific theory ever.
But is it?
I judge the importance of science from the effect that it has had upon the world - how it has changed our live (normally for the better). One only has to consider the effects of the following scientific discoveries upon our lives and compare them with any comparable effect that Darwin's theories have had to see just how small the impact of evolution has been upon our lives:
Newtons dynamic theories and calculus
Priestley's chemical discoveries
Faraday's electrical discoveries
Maxwell's electro-magnetic discoveries
Telephony discoveries
medical advance discoveries
Atomic theory discoveries.
Hertz's radio wave discoveries.
Relativity discoveries
Quantum theorem discoveries
Shockley's semi-conductor discoveries
Turing's computing discoveries

This short list has altered our world forever and improved the standards of living and life expectancy enormously. These are all effects of good science.

What effect has Darwin had except to change our view of the world?

From the theory of Evolution sprang Eugenics, a process in which we are able to evolve into a better species. By curing disease and genetically modifying out flaws, our species gets stronger. No other species on the planet has this ability. So yes, Quantum mechanics can tell us all sorts of stuff about everything, but only Evolution can extend our lives, make us stronger, and ultimately stop disease.

Adrian,
why dont you go on TV and tell people all of this? You have a lot of knowledge on the subject and not just Evolution, but from I have read Physics and religion as well. You could be the Dawkins when he retires.
By the way Darwinian, I love the Hitchhiker's Guide quote!
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But Dawkins does not stop here...He goes further and maintains that God did not create tha universe it just hapened in the big bang


My opinion:
This motto is coming up, times and again: you retarded atheists you are not capable to demonstrate who created the univese,all your theories are not provable...so return to God and believe in his creation.
The discrepancy between the limits of science and the believe in God is hidden under the layer of an aparent logic conclusion:if not this way then the other way.
That elusive logic can be easily broken by the question :who created God and why?
If we don't know exactly who created the universe or if the evolutionary stage of our intelligence does not enable us to understand that,what we are sure above any doubt is that God is a creation of man and that his only residence is inthe mind of people.
This is not another "scientific theory" to be proven in laboratories.
The undoubitable fact of creation of God by man resides in the necessity for humans to be helped by him in their daily live.
The second undoubitable fact is that all idols found from the dawn of prehistory were man made and that all holly scriptures where written by men.
We don't need any theory to disprove the existence of God the above mentioned facts are not denyable

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We don't need any theory to disprove the existence of God the above mentioned facts are not denyable


I agree

In science you don't need to prove a negative only a positive.

I could say that the entire universe was in fact sneezed out of the nose of a being called the great green arkleseezure (forgive the spelling) and we should all live in fear of the time called the coming of the great white hankerchief.

The onus is then on me to prove my theory is correct, and not on you to disprove it.

Hmm, may i just make the massive assumption that the person who wrote that original quote, is not a scientist?
My opinion is, Richard Dawkins states a lot of truths.
Sometimes i just don't see the point in arguing with Christians anymore when we know they have no grasp of logic and reason.
Here are some errors I spotted:



Assuming Darwins Religious beliefs.

Evolution is 'just' a theory.

Assumes you cannot test Evolution.

Mixing Evolution and Abiogensis

Making assumptions on what caused the Big Bang

The writer is unaware that Evolution is the unifying theory of biology. This means it brings together all the fields of biology and nothing makes sense without Evolution, including medicine. Which saves millions yearly.
This short list has altered our world forever and improved the standards of living and life expectancy enormously. These are all effects of good science.
Nice discussion! Keep the information coming!
Am exited with the recent big bang experiment? Any updates on that?
Useful thread!
keep the info coming
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