Atheist Forum

Okay, i'm new to this forum but i have noticed there are quite a few active Christians on this forum.
There are a few questions i would like answered.

Firstly, i am atheist. I deny the existence of any form of deity.
I was born into a very well-educated loving atheist family who when i was young had a choice between sending me to a local 'rough' school that was known for drugs and sex or to a private Seventh Day Adventist college. I was sent to the private school.

I have read the entire bible, start to finsh and my study of the bible is one of the contributing factors to my atheism. It is a contradictory series of biased docterines written by conservative men of a couple of thousand of years ago.

When i was young, like 6 years old, i constantly questioned very basic principles of Christianity that didn't make sense to me as a child...These questions were never answered and i was then known as a trouble maker.

I have been Christian. There was a time in my life when i went to church and youth group and although, i kept telling myself that God was real and he was looking after me, and even though in the music at church i could "feel" his presence....I knew it was all my own manifestation.

One of my biggest issues with Christianity is the fact that God is meant to be giving us all a "choice"...A choice to choose between him, or death, essentially. How is this a choice when it's pretty much a gun to our heads?

Secondly, it states in the bible in Matthew (5: 17-18) that we are meant to follow the word of the old testament as truth. Now, the old testament - excuse the language but it one mentally disturbing fucked up piece of shit. . The god represented in the old testament is a malevolent one who appears to be playing some kind of sick twisted psycho-killer game with humans on Earth, constantly testing their love for him with sacrifices. God, according to the old testament is one hell of a mass murderer. Is this the kind of god you want to follow? And why did they even have to make a "new" testament, was there something wrong with the original "old" one?

Also, the creationsim thing. I mean, seriously....Seriously........Do you really believe God created the whole universe in 7 days (no, sorry 6..he rested on the 7th)? And, if you're not a creationist Christian, was is your criteria on deciding which bits of the bible you will or won't believe? And if you believe that there is a use of metaphor or allegory, then where abouts in the bible does it state there is a use of metaphor??

I may not be able to prove that there isn't a god, however, there is most definately proof that 'god' did not create the universe in 7 days.
A Christian friend studying science with me at University once told me that Satan planted the fossils to trick us. . .

Anyway, i'm keen to have an open discussion between the religious and nonreligious alike.
Fire Away!

You won't get any argument from me.

And as far as your friend saying that the devil planted fossils, well, this is typical of someone desperately trying to make the evidence fit the theory.

I once had a born again Christian friend whom I worked with and he was, politely asked, by our manager to stop preaching to everyone. He was convinced the our manager had been sent by the devil to try to stop the 'truth' being told.

Welcome BettyValentine, very good first post.

Welcome. I#m not sure if you will get the answer you are looking for here (or anywhere else for that matter). In my experience these kinds of conversations always end with "Well you just need faith".

I'm not the most qualified person to answer your questions but I'll try to tackle this one, which probably isn't even a very Christian response (and shouldn't have to be).

You are given two choices that lead to two different conclusions. If you desire one conclusion over the other then obviously you'll have to go with its respected choice. You can't choose one and expect the outcome of the other.

Say that you're hungry and you got two choices: McDonald's or Taco Bell's.

You really want to eat a hamburger but you want to go to Taco Bell's. You can go to Taco Bell's but just don't expect that you can order a hamburger because they don't sell them there. So complaining to the cashier isn't going to do you any good because hamburgers just isn't their business. You'll have to go to McDonald's for that.

Yes, it's a very oversimplified example. Forgive me.

McDonald's don't punish you with eternal torment for going to Taco Bell's though. That is quite a big difference.

Adrian,

My point was to show that there are two choices with two different conclusions. If you prefer one conclusion then it's only logical that you follow its respected choice. You can't follow one and expect the conclusion of the other.

This is not one of those situations where everything leads to the same destination so it doesn't matter which road you take.

If your point was to show that there were two choices then you failed. If one choice is eternal torment (i.e. the worst possible outcome) then how is it a choice? It is the equivalent of saying "Do what I tell you to or I will torture you". It isn't a choice, it is a scare tactic.

Of course there aren't only ever two choices, and I decide that given the nature of this outcome, coupled with the claims made by religion, it makes it very unlikely that this scenario is actually real.

Sorry but a choice is a choice. This explanation is very basic.

You stated "the worst possible outcome" but according to whom? If a person despised everything about God, then wouldn't choosing to go to hell actually be preferred because it is the place that is least reflective of God? If going to Heaven meant you actually had to agree with God and His ways then why would you even want to go there? Why would you want eternal life with something that was obviously not to your liking?

Our basic instinct is survival. The so called "choice" you keep going on about is simply a scare tactic aimed at our instinct to survive. If someone told me to cut my own foot off or he would kill me, I would probably cut my own foot off. My survival instinct is being threatened and cutting off my foot would keep me alive. Yes, it is a choice by the standard definition, but I do not think forced choices should be classified that simply.

A choice should have no controlling element to be properly considered one. A choice to buy a book over another is one without a controlling element. You simply make your own mind up about which book to choose. A choice to buy a book over another because otherwise you will be killed is not a proper choice.